As anyone knows crafting is a fairly vast system so as I make changes this thread will serve both players, staff and myself as a location so we can all stay updated.

Runic Hammers now have a minimum blacksmith skill requirement, the idea is only the best smiths can use the best equipment.

Hammer Type        Skill
Dull Copper        60
Shadow  Iron    80
Copper            100
Bronze            110
Gold            120
Agapite            130
Verite            150
Valorite        160
Blaze            170
Ice                180
Toxic            200
Electrum        220
Platinum        240

With this change also came a second part, the effectiveness of each hammer has been changed.  I will not go into exact numbers however the better the tool the better the results.  The top end of the skill mark for this shard seems to be 240 so in keeping with that I plan on making all of the skills have some incentive for achieving this extremely high level.

I appreciate what your trying to do. But I think Val is to high. That I could see starting at 120. That is fairly easily achievable and can be the doorway to the better stuff. Honestly for the most part no one is going to use a Verite or below crafted weapon (somtimes you can get really luck with lower metals). I am curious to see what others think. some of those BS #'s look absurd. unless you have TONS of free time or TONS of ed to buy BS set. BS went from a fun causal thing to a meta grind. I think there can be a compromise somewhere in the middle.

WOW... I like where you are going with this... but, at the same time, that just made most of my runic hammers I just got unusable for a VERY LONG TIME... OUCH...

I'm sure I missed it somewhere, but if not... a little warning would have been nice, then I wouldn't have been so careful using them as sparingly as I did... and with not getting any of the gold lost from the revert, I won't be able to afford a nicer gear for a VERY LONG TIME.

That being said... hard core crafters will get their just rewards for all their time spent!

...just out of curiosity, are there currently enough items one can wear in game that raise (using your example) Blacksmithy by 120 points? 

This is moving towards Pay to Win which is always a fine line and increases the gap between players with money and players without.
I donate because I do not have much time to play so when I do I like to actually play so I donate to help and to buy skill balls and powerscrolls with my ED. Now the donation option of Runics for 100ED becomes useless unless you manage to get a ASH for +50 to make 170 skill, then you need +10 cloth pieces which is either token grind or spending insane amounts on ED on deeds until you get your +10 set.


This will definitely made my crafter useless and I wont be anywhere near being a usable crafter for a long time. I do not have the time nor the money to grind that many cloth deeds to get a smithy set. And I wont be able to attend the auction tomorrow and see if one comes up. Although based on last weeks prices I wont be affording a set any time soon.


This will just make the rich/vets richer and the new/poor poorer.

...just out of curiosity, are there currently enough items one can wear in game that raise (using your example) Blacksmithy by 120 points?

That is kind of why I did only 1 skill at a time as I look at the equipment not just available in game at this moment but some new things coming along shortly.  Keep in mind with blacksmithing there are +60 hammers available from bods and gloves of the hardworker provide a +10, so I am at 190 basically already.  When you work to acquire everything needed to work with the best runic hammers you also have some security in knowing someone who just started yesterday won't be duplicating your efforts.

This is only step one for crafts, when you see where I go with bods, have the rewards make sense and resource gathering.. you will see what I have in mind. 

1.  I would like to see in fel have static resources, this will allow crafters to go out and search for the valuable resources and be rewarded without it changing on them every restart. 

2.  Bods is going to get a complete overhaul, in my plan you could be asked to create 10 gold swords with either several properties or perhaps a specific property and the reward for such a task will be equal to the task you completed. 

3.  Getting bods will also be changed, it will make sense as well and with something in mind for those who just want to craft for there game here. 

Possible suggestion on runic hammer requirements:
Dull Copper      60
Shadow  Iron   60
Copper         60
Bronze         60
Gold         80
Agapite         100
Verite         120
Valorite      140
Blaze         160
Ice            180
Toxic         200
Electrum      220
Platinum      240

Let me know what you think, this is not in effect I am offering this up for discussion.

Keep in mind you are assuming that I am not changing everything else to work together.  With the old system that was in place you could create the best gear with valorite runic hammers and you basically only needed a blacksmithing 150 to maximize the results.  There is nothing in that I see that works or even provides a reward for being a crafter.  The people who PvM and PvP also work long and hard on their gear, to achieve their goals.. There are so many other ways to get the desired results without eds or buying.  I spent 3 months building my fishing gear so I could gold pan and then another 2 months for tinkering gear so I could make them.

Have a little faith.  As you may notice I am willing to listen and discuss any point of view some else may have.

Really.. 3000 eds

You can get to 240 blacksmithing just by doing bods because you can get socket deeds with blacksmithing bods and socket a few blacksmithing augs.  Using magical cloth for blacksmithing may seem effective but when you start to do blacksmithing and put sockets on armor of fortune pieces then not only are you getting +25 blacksmithing each piece but also 200 luck.

240 is a little time and effort, nothing more and nothing less.

I assume this is the same for fletching as well?

No, but it is going to happen.. I am just doing one skill at a time, just in case there are some good suggestions we need to use to improve the over all system.

I broke down and made a crafter suit , no skill clothing and each has 5 sockets on a 100% LRC suit throwing me at a BASE 230 Smith , 230 Fletching , 175 Lore , so if ya need something made and have the mats I would be happy to try just PM me.  Although I made some stuff prior to this update and not a single item I made exceptional had levels =/

there are +60 hammers available from bods

@Jammytt
I was not meaning to make it seem "easy", I was merely attempting to explain there are multiple ways to achieve the desired results. 

The new bod system actually takes into account everything you spoke about..and I do mean everything.  I will start with how you get the bod and the time between collecting new bods all the way to turning in hard to complete bods will provide the best rewards.  Nothing is as painful as turning in a large plat bod and getting something crazy like an anvil.

Nothing is as painful as turning in a large plat bod and getting something crazy like an anvil.

I think you are going for a good balance. It means crafters will have goals....I mean who smelts platinum without at least 200 mining after all...it makes sense that you'd need Higher BS skill to use better tools.

For those who are thinking it's a pay to play....I built my old BS suit without spending a single ED...and it was nearing 300.  For some...it's gonna be a pay to play quickly...but anyone who wants to invest some energy into it can build crafting suits without ED.

may seem like 260 blacksmith is unreachable without ed. but between lucky cloth deed pulls and augments it really is obtainable. may take weeks - months depending on how much you play but its is definitely obtainable if you put in work. reason why you rarely saw bs skill this high on players in the past was cause it wasnt necessary.

some suggestions i have is make socket deeds available through all types of crafting bods. because these will be even more necessary now, and reduce the bod timer and/or go back to having a new bod available upon turning one in.

good job kane. i am impressed. i feel crafting has some depth now.

I think you are going for a good balance. It means crafters will have goals....I mean who smelts platinum without at least 200 mining after all...

For those who are thinking it's a pay to play....I built my old BS suit without spending a single ED...and it was nearing 300.  For some...it's gonna be a pay to play quickly...but anyone who wants to invest some energy into it can build crafting suits without ED.

and reduce the bod timer and/or go back to having a new bod available upon turning one in.

Don't get me wrong Kane I appreciate the hard work and thought put into the system, and it does need a overhaul. the [bods gump needs fixing as well.
Don't get me wrong I am not trying to have a go or trash your ideas and work I am simply voicing my opinion as a very very casual player. I may be logged in a lot but I am AFK 98% of the time.

May I suggest that we don't implement the changes to requirements until the full system is ready to go.  (bods, rewards) etc.  Because as of now, requirements have been changed. A vast majority of people now cannot use any of the runics they have saved , or in my case bought  (I got a 100 us val runic with ED), which I was going to use this weekend but now cannot.   

I detest BOD's , because of the time/effort vs reward. Like I said, I appreciate where you are trying to take this, but its to much at the drop of a hat.

Personally I would rather see some new or reimplemented lost content, bug fixes, tweaks (300+ fireball mobs) etc.  before fine tuning of crafting and what not. 

thanks for the time you have invested so far and being willing to listen to our opinions on the matters.

@Dreadwolf:  The problem with waiting until an entire system is done is some of the input I am getting at this time I am using as I go forward.  No matter how I pick to put things in place some will be happy and some will not be happy.  Dante has been in my ear going over a list of things dealing with content and issues that fall within my realm.  if you want give me a list of things you want to see and such, I have no problem adding it to my list to check out.

@DarkWarrior:  No worries and I am about to recode all of how you get bods so it will be looked at.

  Kane, thank you. Keep up the good work. There will always be people who will nay say everything.

  I was startled at first, by the high numbers, but those who added to this post reminded me of the obvious, sockets.

  My ideas concern sockets, and bringing the crafting system back to an all day playability factor.

  Sockets, Sockets, Sockets! Its what this shard loves, me to. However, at the cost of playability crafting has been crippled, by the addition of socket deeds, with  giant time restraints.

  I would agree that a 4-6 hour window between BoD's would be reasonable, if the system also included a reset option after BoD turn ins.

   As far as I can tell, that function was disabled due to socket deeds. That would seem reasonable, but I disagree.

  When I played OSI, you got a BoD, you filled it, turned it in and got another one. Sure this was not the case with a large bod, but that's why we had alts back then. Simply switch to your alt, get a junk bod, than put it in a storage container at your home. Log alt character out and your main blacksmith back online. Fill the junk BoD, with your main, than turn it in and get a higher chance for a better bod. Rinse and repeat. This was a play style long ago, and it was, still is, rather fun.

  A socket deed kind of breaks that, and for good reason, because socket deeds make our gear better, and our characters tougher still.

  This is why I propose that awesome things like socket deeds and some other fancy reward items be put on a 'Merchant Stone'. This stone would need a new currency. I wish to call it a Mark of Completion. This currency would be universal, in that each crafting system would grant 'Marks of Completion' as a reward. Buying a +5 socket deed would cost say 500-1000 'Marks of Completion'.

To determine how many Marks of Completion a BoD should reward a player, I would take into consideration two things. The players skill level, and the amount of Fame being granted for the BoD turned in. At GM level crafting, I would suggest a 5-10% bonus increase in fame being awarded. At Legendary, I would suggest another 5-10% bonus increase.

I then propose that Socket deeds, +1 and +2, be granted as random chance rewards for BoD turns in across the crafting system tree: Blacksmithing, Carpentry, Fletching, Tailoring,  Taming and Tinkering.

Socket deeds that grant +3 through +5 would be on the merchant stone, waiting for purchase.

I would also like to see [Crafting Skill] 120 Power Scrolls on that Merchant Stone.

The final request is of course to allow the old system its rebirth.

When you turn in a bod, you are then able to receive another one right afterwards.

IMHO:

~Tamers are not restricted to using a pet for only one hour and waiting another 4-6 hours to use it again.

~A melee fighters isn't kicked out of a dungeon after an hour, with a 6 hour timer counting down until he can return to adventure there again.

~A Magic users spells don't have a 4 hour cool down attached to them.

 ~So, please hear me out and tell me why a crafter has to wait 2, 4, or even 6 hours to do the only thing he/she loves. Craft things to put into bods for a small chance at great rewards.

Thanks for reading. All ideas are just that, all examples are as well. Please feel free to expand upon anything you like. But please, if possible tell me why some or all of them were not considered; if you have the time Kane.

I am also not against better ideas. But the last idea I gave, really is a win win for all.

 --Sturger--

@Sturger:  First let me address the "Getting Bods", The whole idea of using alts or not using alts and one skill vs multiple skills kind of seems just odd to me so I have plans to change it completely.  I counted out a point system that each account will have, points will replenish basically at a rate of 1/hour up to the maximum amount.   We are also planning to add ways to get additional points as well so it won't be so linear.  I am not against nor for the turning in a bod and getting a new one, I just want to wait  until I see how the first part works out before taking that next step.

Sockets I am not prepared to address to that extent yet, when I get in and deal with the bod rewards I will keep that in mind.