Hear me out before you shoot meh. 

I request, that any item create for EVO be made fully available via donation, for all times. I request the limitations of any balance factor be made in game mechanics, not in quantity of the items created.


Here is my reason:


Ok I remember when I came to EVO & saw things the Vets had, that I wanted, but then found out, its no longer available ingame.  Today, things are made with the intention to limit availability ingame. 2 years from now, a new player comes & wants what I have. They find out its not available anymore. rinse/repeat.


Now the important factors: Vets of my age would rip the world apart, take away all my potential fun because I couldnt compete for anything against them, because of things they had, that I couldnt have, do to limitation. Apply the same to me as the vet & newcomer of today.


How is it fair, if I have a dog, Sam has a dog & Chris has one too, but the George comes in later & he wants a dog, but they are no longer available, so he cant have one.  Dogs are pretty cool, theres nothing like them, but too bad, you cant have one because of you couldnt play 5+ hours day or  came 3 months after dogs were available.


As George, I scratch my head, ask some questions, talk to a few people, read around, but...I cant have a dog, why? Im willing to do the work, hell, Ill even donate for one,but why cant I have one? Why are dogs in the game if they arent meant for everyone?


Equal availability= Fair & balnced for all


Does this make sense, or am I loosing mey marbles?


*giggles*


Well, I tried,


*hugs*


Sage

I feel like your story might be confusing me about the point you are trying to make here, I don't know what the dog is supposed to be in this example. I am having trouble thinking of anything that was shiny and alluring two years ago when I was a noob that I can't buy today and am coming up short. Maybe a couple things that I would no longer WANT to buy because better alternatives have come out... but nothing comes to mind that has been taken away. If items are being taken away(excluding the luck deeds which I honestly have no opinion over) then I would think in general that is uncool... But again, nothing comes to mind.

The idea that all items should be made available is honestly a terrifying one. I might have a difference of opinion with staff on what "available in game" truly means but they do a DAMN fine job of keeping our economy in check and not to beat a dead horse because I think I have read this at least twice on these forums today but... the economy is everything. Rotating through what is available for donation from one month to the next and not allowing some things to be donated for at all is what keeps things rare and appealing to others.

It might make me a little boring but hey, I'm a network administrator and it's not in my nature to be risky... and I like the status quo. It isn't a democracy, at the end of the day Dante and the other staff get to make these decisions but if I am correctly understanding the idea, then I have to be honest and say that I would vote against it.

Thank you for this explanation, you actually said it better than I would:)

A lot of the misunderstanding regarding the monthly rotating items, the changes to the donation tiers and our attempts at keeping things "rare" are based on basic principles of economics 101. The extreme mis-perception is that we do it out of "greed", which is frustrating because it is actually just the opposite.

Most people don't really pay attention or even care to understand the boring details of the inner workings of economics, but Kane and I speak about this daily to fine tune the shard. 

We have a lot of combined experience, and have seen what works and what does not work over the past 6 years here on Evo.  We have become experts on the subject of game economics, and the players should just trust us to do the right things at this point.

Most shards, including the original OSI shards lost control of the economy which ultimately let to the downfall and extreme dissatisfaction of most of the playerbase.

The staff is very careful before adding any items or mechanics that might alter the gameplay or economics, so we have meetings, discuss the situation, speak with players and test play all the changes.

The bottom line is, we don't do it to personally upset individual players or change things in the economy to be "greedy".  We do it for the health of the shard community and for the love of the game, simple as that!

I probably should have mentioned this before in the above post, sorry. Kane's Dev post this week reminded me to make this post.

Ive tried to do day 3, 4, &5 Xmas Quests, just once, in the time I have to play for those days & was unable to complete them. I only have 1-1.5 hours I have during weekdays. So will have to go without in our household, so how does others with less gear or the same time constants do it?

Many times, spawn rates are just to low & time consuming to participate. Also, some events are only done during 6 am-6 pm [time, so no chances of getting things for the other 12 hours of the day.

just wanted to add a few more details, thats all.

Sage


The quests were designed to draw players online daily with a sense of urgency to play each day to obtain a FREE holiday gift.  We did not expect every player to be able to complete the quest 12 times! This is enormous task of time and effort.  The expectation was that we hope you all had fun trying, got at least ONE of the gifts, and enjoyed the shard...Happy Holidays!

Ill throw in on this topic as the base idea of making all items available via donation is terrifying. Ive played many games and have toyed with many economies. The games that started to veer towards having most if not all items available to purchase or donate for always crashed the economy within days of its implementation. Some people are willing to spend LOTS of money to buy items and then sell them off. If enough people do this (and there is always enough) the prices plummet and the whole economy goes out the window.

Coming to your second point of spawn rates and event duration. That's the name of the game, items are rare for a reason and events only happen within  their dates as to limit the amount of said event items. This is a norm for most MMO style games and it works. Am I sad because I didn't get the items because my schedule did not allow me to spend time working for it, yes I am sad but that's the way the cookie crumbles. While a mob may be a rare spawn with enough time and work it can be acquired and alot of time the people whole have time and got 6 of the event items will place them up on auction. Event items are kin to badges of accomplishment. Its a rare item that says "HEY look at me I got so and so item I am awesome." Not everyone is going to have all the items and if it turned into a game where everyone could just get everything with no work there would be no fun nor any point to playing.

These are just my feelings as someone who has spent 15 years in the MMO gaming world through various games.

Yes, again thank you for the additional posts that help to clarify the issues!

Here are a few of the game mechanics that we use to balance the distribution of items:

Auction System:
This method of item distribution allows rare items to be added in the game slowly.  This is a great test for the staff to determine interest and price of an item.  Since there is only one item available, the high price can easily be determined for each item.

Vendor Stones:
We add items to each type of vendor stones and rotate the items to create a sense of urgency to buy now or they will be gone next month and hard to obtain.  It also helps set a "high" mark for the economy to sense the worth of an item (based on the prices set by players at auction)

This system allows items to be distributed at the high value, but still allowing players to engage in fair trade, below market value and not be price gouged

ED Stones:
We add a rotating list of mid-level items for ED purchase each month.  As new items are introduced we distribute the older top items in this method.

By controlling items and the amount, the economy can be adjusted based on what the staff sees happening between players and auctions each month, and adjust

Raffle Stones:
We add rare items on the raffle stone, giving any player a chance to to win top items

Top items can be crafted:
You can craft the Dragon Cloaks, Black Belts and other rare items, you just have to work hard to level them up over time.  This creates a rare economy between players that want to work and players that just want to buy, both types of players win

Top items can be earned:
You can level up weapons, quest for rares, champ spawns, fish, gold pan, sos, treasure chests etc to obtain most items through hard work and adventuring

Player vs Player - PVP:
you can kill players and steal in Felucca to obtain items

Evolution Dollars can be found in game!
This is the ONLY shard to ever allow donation dollars to be found in game.  You can find ED in rare loot packs, from events, sos, treasure chests, voting and trading with players for gold and items.

Donation Only Items:
We make a few rares each month.  During the first month, we offer these items as free bonus reward for donations.  This helps entice players to donate to the shard to cover costs.  The second month we try and add these items into the game to be found by some game mechanic.

FYI all items can be obtained in game.  You can easily enjoy this shard and never donate!  This is NOT a pay to play shard, donations just make obtaining items fast and easy for players that have limited time to play or love instant gratification!

  Hello Sagemoon, HUGS!

 Lets start with your original post.

  I understood your dog equation, by the way, but I felt it was only half the equation. In the end--because we all want a stable economy-- if George wants to buy a dog, he has to purchase/receive one from Sam, Chris, or Sagemoon. (at least according to the equation presented)

Yes, the dog donation/quest item was removed--put on hold rather-- and new players only have one way of getting it, through trade. But that option is there, and trade is what makes RPG's economically stable. If there is anyone to blame, it is all the players who left there houses full of stuff; or the players who hoard everything-- even kindling!-- yet never use it.

 Having said that, there is also one other factor not mentioned in the equation above. The staff [Kane, Domino, Dante, and others] are always adding new things to the shard. What if two of those new things were a Cat and a Boar. The Cat is just as tough as the Dog, but moves a little faster. It even comes with a new attack, which stuns its prey 5% of the time; for 10 seconds! The Boar on the other hand is way better, then the Cat and the old Dog, but it requires a player to complete a lengthy chain of time consuming quests, before the boar can be tamed/gained. Its all perspective. For instance, I'll never be an air-force pilot, but I've always wanted to be one. (bad eye sight here) Maybe in the future I can buy cybernectic eyes, until then I just watch as a plan flies over head and dream. *Shrugs*


   Your second post, for me at least, touches on a sore spot. But whether I gave up, or grew up, after the fact is something to be figured out later. No, I'm not saying anyone is immature-- and if I am calling someone immature, than that person would be myself-- for posting their opinions on the forums. What I am saying, the long way, is I can relate.

 Last year I conquered all '12 Days of Hell'--as Kane, so lovingly, described last years Christmas event to me in a recent conversation-- and it made me proud. I was also, exhausted after it all, which kept me from playing UOE for a few weeks. 

This year, however, I had to forgo the whole event. I missed day one completely, mental error, and day two stumped me in the end. I did spend 5 hours, on day two, trying to complete the quest, but to many factors kept it out of reach. The fact that I was failing this year's "12 Days of Christmas" event really got to me. In the end however --after exhausting every possible thing I could say on the forums, or any suggestions I might imply to Kane on how to make the 12 quests easier to accomplish-- I realized I was being selfish. 

  I had forgotten, for just a moment, that I was only given one me; and I have only so many hours in the day to do what I want--versus what I have to-- in order to live for another day.

  Sure we don't all have the time we want to do all the fun everythings we want to do, but that shouldn't make us mad, I realized while writing this post. Instead we should concentrate on the things in life, and in UOE, that we can do/accomplish,  and put all of our unhappy thoughts behind us-- right next to the kindling pile-- and have a happy holiday.


  I don't need presents, this year, anyways. I have the priveilege to write creatively on the UOE-Herald forums thread;  thanks to the trust the staff places in me. I have a beautiful wife who is more than just a gift to me, she is also my best friend. I am healthy, with a descent job, the bills are paid, and there is always food on the table. 


   What I'm trying to say Sagemoon, and to everyone else reading. Life, UOE, the holidays, are not just about stuff, they're also about the moments we enjoyed throughout them all. If something is no longer enjoyable, find something else which is. So what if George has 12 new gifts, next year Johnny will have 12 gifts which are probably better anyways, and maybe George will sell you some of his old gifts to buy a few of Johnny's next year. It's all perspective.


    --Sturger, of Skara Brea; reporter at large, EVO-Herald--

Lets start with "No". 

I will be blunt, I don't worry about fair.. I worry about balance.  There are many items I create with the idea that it will be only available for a limited time or by limited methods.  The choice is yours if you wish to get involved, not mine.  If you were not around during that time for something specific you can always ask.. Just have to respect that it might take time because there are many other things going on besides what you want.  There are 500 players at any given time that we try to keep busy at all hours of the day, not a specific time period.

Now does this mean older items won't come back again by some other means, no it doesn't.  Dante and I just recently discussed the idea of a Augment Champ of sorts, can also see a Mystery Chest for the new Augments as well.  A new champ takes a few days even for a simple one and I am not sure if you noticed this is the holiday season which means it is very busy for me.  I already have the three things I am coding for January (Vecna's Tomb, Capture the Flag and Weapon Crafting) for February we have a month long quest idea we want to try.  We do try to plan out what I am coding in advance and this gets blown out of the water when I have to deal with side issues like crashes, bugs, drama and such.  Lets not forget both months we have a auction as well.

I think the overall point I am trying to make it a lot more thought goes into things then I think you realize, nothing that is worth doing is on a whim.  Ask my wife or anyone who has been around me for longer then 2 seconds I put thought into everything I do.  This doesn't mean I am right all the time but for me to change you need to have a good reason for it, has to be balanced and won't hurt the shard.