can you guys block the use of pets in PVP?

im all about dueling, pvp field battles, guild battles, pvp events and fighting over champs in fact i really enjoy it. however getting torn to shreds by 5 werewolves while the owner does nothing else but stands there and watches is getting old and should not be part of pvp in my opinion.

whatchyou think? 

can you guys block the use of pets in PVP?

im all about dueling, pvp field battles, guild battles, pvp events and fighting over champs in fact i really enjoy it. however getting torn to shreds by 5 werewolves while the owner does nothing else but stands there and watches is getting old and should not be part of pvp in my opinion.

whatchyou think? 

yea i can play like that too but id rather not.

but yea that makes sense. about people using pets for defense. thanks for the response

We have been requested to reduce pet damage during pvp.  After watching pvp for the last year, I think this may be a needed change.  We have looked into this and may make a change to balance this better.
If we make this change, what % of damage would you reduce the pets to?

     I had pondered this myself, and I feel that the biggest threat from pets in pvp is fire breath. It does % damage based on a pets hp (unless Kane changed that) and has the potential to one shot a player (especially with multiple pets, like werewolves). I'm not sure how fire breath is checked in regard to range, so that might also be an issue. Pet speed and damage all seem on point with the new changes to breeding currently. I guess the only problem would be the damage from donation pets. Is there a way to tie the damage reduction against players to the donation flag? If so, that's where I would start. Well I'd actually start with the breath attack and then go to donation pets. If damage is reduced on donation pets (without seeing real numbers) I'd ballpark 50% reduction in damage. You don't want them to be useless and 10 royal steeds would still wreck a players day. Or maybe even a max cap on damage from a pet to a player. At a cap of 75 damage it would take 4 hits to kill a player and that's not unrealistic. Especially considering the multiple escape options available. That's all i got. -later

  I believe, at this time, lowering pet damage-- while in PvP combat-- is not a solution, and will ultimately end up being a small band aid placed over a more severe wound. That severe wound is PvP itself.

  Players with the potential to posses: All skills, certain donation items, broken [IMO] augments, Skill stacking items and trendy PvP gear/set ups is the severe wound I am speaking of. And the blood oozing from it is all the new problems that crop up from day to day.

 
  --Sturger--


  P.S. I might post more thought on this topic, but I need more time to think about it. Thanks for reading.

This is an old issue from long ago when everyone and their mom had 5x 2 slot werewolves and were abusing the [getpet command and using that criminal flag loophole. Players are playing fair these days in regards to pets and pvp.

Its true it has not recently been actively used in PvP but it is still an issue and when PvP picks up it will be an issue again. I like Soulsunders idea for setting a cap for damage done by pets to players. I think a flat 50% damage reduction would be a good start and I know that Pets would still be very very viable and deadly in PvP.


Maybe a combination of % flat damage reduction with a cap for pet damage done to players would be ideal. 50% flat damage reduction, with a 75 damage cap (for players only) would curb the overpowered use of pets in PvP. They will still be very effective in PvP.

+1 throw the teleporter in the mix as well please

+1 throw the teleporter in the mix as well please

I dont agree with pet damage against pvp should be lowered , people pay lots of eds to get these pets and spending time to train them level them. if you are talking about pkers attack and get the new bies champs ok it is inside the rules but also. new players with pets should able to protect theirself too. If you attack a person with pets you should able to handle the results of it. it is same amaount of time and money that you spend to pvp gear . some people like me enjoy pvm and pks ofc kill me too but that doesnt means that i am easy target go get me i defend all rights to use pets peace all

I think the largest problem with PvP right now is the near instant cast time of Heal, and the 20+dmg it heals with high eval builds. For me, PvP is basically a war of who gets bored quickest, or who calls reinforcements fastest.

Would love to see dmg modifiers for PvP be reduced even more (or resist augments added that reduced mage dmg), to make longer, more entertaining fights. When an Eval Mage dumps, and can drop someone in 10-30 seconds there is a problem :-)

10-30 seconds? The average length of a fight on a pre-aos server is between 2-15 seconds. 10-30 is pretty good, as is I get bored with duels lasting too long.

There are easy ways to mitigate pets in a PVP environment. Try to find those out, but to change too much of the process would cause an imbalance for those players who may need the pets to defend themselves and worked for the pets.  Even if a players intentionally uses pets in PVP, they can come across some pretty foul depreciation's if their pets die.   A player, as long as properly insured, only has to worry about re-equipping their gear.   It comes down to the same as going against great pvpers, when you see them you run, there is nothing that says you have to stay and fight a player with pets out.  Sometimes the best thing to do is run away and fight another day.  Once again, I am just weighing in on what has obviously been a topic for quite some time.  Weight in as you see fit, it will not hurt my feelings.


-Loial

5 pets on one person is not PvP. That's LoS .. Lack of skill. Especially 5 OP donation pets.


(A) Limit pets to regular ones. Still powerful with pet leveling and pet scrolls.


(B) Add provocation on players. Easy to do.


5 pets if there are more players fighting you is understandable, but standing there while 5 pets kill one player is just .... n/m.


That same person running around killing people with 5 dony pets is probably the same one that opens a ticket when a red jumps and kills him.

Some of the effects of pets in PvP can be mitigated by using herding skills.  Herd the opponents pets, if there is time, and they can become less of a problem.


So keep your Shepherd's Gear handy.

Lol. Why do PKs always want to take away anything that helps non-pks survive. I really hope this shard doesnt start catering to PKs.

I dont PvP, so if I see another player in fel I usually recall asap. If a PK sees someone with 5 WW or something then maybe they should do the same and recall away.

I mean if a non pvper such as myself got here complaining that every PK kills me so fast would you guys think of anything to change that? Probably not. But a PK gets on complaining that WWs can kill them so now we have to come with a way to change that?

The pets do need some adjustment when their damage can out class the healing and damage capabilities of the players, on top of them having a higher cap for resistances and health making them much harder to kill before they kill you.  Now add the problem of 2 slot pets that have great DPS and survival capabilities to the mix and it can get out of hand.


Some decrease in damage output as well as the aggression levels of some pets does need to be looked at.  Perhaps instead of changing the pet damage, to avoid the possibility of a bug where the pet has the damage reduced against everything in Fel, though it can be done in a different way such as all characters have a buff upon entering Fel that gives them greater defence against tamed pets.  This may make the survival chance of a player set up on by 5 werewolves or fire steeds a bit higher without making the 5 pets useless.

i know donation pets are strong but to change pet damage or alter that takes out a aspect of a game that some players like. Im no tamer per say, but if it happens it happens. rez and go back at it. i manage to get around pets and still get a few kills.to control a big pack actually requires some micromanagement. I have been on both sides of the argument.

If it weren't completely improper to do so, I'd link to complaints that read almost word for word the same as this one on every Fel server I know of.

There's a lot that could be said about it but I'll make my comment about just a few plain facts.

Fact 1 - PKs want to dictate the terms of the fight. If that weren't true, there would be no need for non-consensual PvP. Pets = surprise, pets = more combat than they were looking for, pets = possibly losing.


Fact 2 - You'll know when something is really OP because all the advanced players will be doing it. The day you see PKs running around ganking people with squads of pets, you can be sure it's OP. Until then, we have our +parry and +eval.

Quote from: intensifried on February 14, 2016, 09:33:03 PM

+1
Another thing this made me think of with your parry comment is, at least our pets give us (noobs) a chance to fight back because we cant hit someone with that much parry when still at noob stats/skills.

At its root, it's not about fairness or logic or anything deep. That's why my comment was short. I used to PvP a lot on another, rather notorious server. When someone else killed me, they talked trash and cussed at me. And when I killed someone else - they talked trash and cussed at me. That's what this is really about.

Well Harper I have around 260 to 290 eval depending on my gear which is pretty high. If i really wanted to i could rock some donation pets on top of that maybe 10 royals kill people even faster You don't want me using pets do you?

I pray for the day Kane gets around to balancing Mage/Eval in PvP....

Another balancing issue would be to adjust the mechanic of skills past a certain threshold for all skills.

Example: once you go above lets say 160 parry - it reduces the effectiveness of spirit speak, eval, and animal lore.

So when someone is rocking 240 parry for instance - their lore/spirit speak/eval will take a significant hit so having pets, such as werewolves, won't be possible.

Sure, you would still have players that have awesome pets - but they would have reduced other skills to counter it.

Of course people hate balance and decisions and stuff.

As i said to kane, there is the possibility to add new items, like +60 magery -60 healing or +60 sword -60 magery(+eva-parry, +anatomy-hidding, etc), that give a massive boost to the main class and remove all that cross template features that never can belance the pvp

I am able to survive other peoples pets just fine. I have yet to ever die to a pet.

With the trait system in development I think it's too early to state the affairs of pets in PvP.

If a new player is all in starter astro demon came and complained that people with high magery like dark pony are suicide to fight and imagery needs to be nerfed, older vets might disagree. If the same player fought Cain and complained that they can't compete with the gear and sockets and it is suicide and sockets need a nerf, vets might disagree.

Coolhand. you've not ran into a five pack of two slot elder WW or a manticore yet :-)

Heck, I think 3x any of the double dmg donation pets would walk through someone pretty quickly.

Just Do whirl wind with your champ axe.

not true at all actually. he rides a manticore. which can easily outrun/telestomp a player and will chase them 10+ screens away and keep up with them enough to do damage. and can kill a player with two hits. it's not a matter of that at all. pony likes the challenge, so in a way it is self gimping. same case for me as well, it'd be stupid if all i did was drop pets and watch people die. that's why i refuse to use them, in cases like cool hand luke; where that's all he can really do is drop pets to get a kill, it's pretty much his only strategy he has. if more than one person comes against him, even if it's me and pony for example, against him, his manticore, and two werewolves, he will yell that we're ganking and leave and refuse to fight either of us. i dont care if pets get nerfed or not honestly. i'll stand and fight them and either win or lose.

I personally think just as you have dexxers and eval mages, tamer should be a build viable in PvP. It takes time to build a suit and get the right pets and level them. Just because they don't fight with their avatars directly doesn't make it an easy class to play. Just as the other "classes" have micromanagement, so does the Tamer "class". This is just my 2 cents.

Harper, I have 5 two slot elder WW's, and 3x magical elves if you want to test how those are. I think the wolves would drop you pretty quick, elves, I am not so sure about.


And Cito, it only takes +10 or so animal lore to fully control the highest end donation pets. No real skill or time involved in getting that. Now, if Kane were to expand upon the trait, breeding, pet system that allowed people to create pets that were on par/better than donation pets.... that would be completely alright, and something worth seeing. I can see it now, a 3 herd of Rune Beetles doing double damage, and stacking deadly poison! I think the largest downside to non-donation pets is A) the lack of double damage, and B) Almost all pets with instinct bonus are junk.

When I talk about building a suit, I mean in the creation of the pets. Some of the tameable pets can be decent when used the right way. I can think of a few combinations that would be decent. The trait system seems very random but I have seen some awesome pets. There is a decent point difference with and without a suit. If a tamer takes the time to find best specimens (stat and DNA wise) then it still takes a lot of work (especially with low HP pets) to make them into something formidable.

Little cain is a cry baby plain and simple! All he does is gank he has no problem killing my pets just ask him any other place then here. In fact the more pets I use the easier it is to kill them with whirl wind attack. Bc you leech more heath with more targets just like a succubus. Wolves were nerfed from 2 slots to 3 the manicore is a 300 dollar donation pet and Its just ok considering how much it costs. The only reason these babygirls want a nerf is bc i showed em how a tamer hybrid can wreck them. Scared babies just cry!

They may have nerfed werewolves from 2 to 3 slots however there are still several players with 5x 2 slot ww's out there which when at lvl 50 and with maxed out stats will wreck most anyone.

I pvp every day never seen that.

I know of two players for certain that have 5 2 slot ww's and I'm pretty sure there are at least a couple more out there.  Just because they aren't out in fel pvp'ing doesn't mean they won't decided to go out there one day.

Harper, you say the non-donation pets are "free", but they cost the most valuable resource known to man, time.


I can confirm there are two people, myself included, that have a full herd of two slot elder WWs. They are no longer available by any means as far as I know.


As to not having seen 5 elder WW's out for PvP.... I have been trying everything in an attempt to NOT resort to this type of PvP, but as we are boxed into either eval mage, or crap dexxer I may just have to. That, plus everything else other than mage/swords being crap has somewhat turned me off of the game at the moment. Still jump on to peddle my goods though.

the donation pets are signifigantly stronger than any tameable pet. So to call yourself a tamer hybrid is a joke.

Your a joke you spend all day playing this game and your still bad. That sounds like a funny joke to me. Get good

Luke, you come on the world chat screaming about people treating you poorly and being as you say "bigots" towards you.
Yet I see you here acting like a petulant teenager, trolling and just being unpleasant to people that are trying to have a civil conversation. I think you need to sit back and think about why you are treated poorly before you bleat and whinge over world chat next time.

Your a joke you spend all day playing this game and your still bad. That sounds like a funny joke to me. Get good

agree'd tamers should be viable in pvp, but if you're going to rock donation pets in pvp make it so you need that 240 lore or something rediculous to use them, if i put 10 lore on my suit, i could do everything cool hand does or odareum does without ever losing a bit of my damage

Yeah dont mind Hoodrat hes just out there putting in work for the hood. I can say as probably one of the most prolific users of donation pets in pvp they are easily countered. The more pets you drop on me the easier I stay alive. The fire breath is a bit op when you have a bunch of pets but then you cycle back around to more pets being a problem for the person controlling them. I can only currently run 4 ww's so havent had a chance to test tactics vs 5 but im fairly sure it would end up similar. With proper skills if you are the person being attacked by a pack of 5 ww's will be 0 problem so long as you do things correctly. Now if you are the attacker you could have a problem. Im going to pull a Kane here and not tell you all the details on the tactics for how to do this but its there. Test and figure it out

Oh and coolhand is wrong hoodrat has put in work for the hood on him.


And whats with this karma thing? how did this post give me -1 karma?

Here is cain dead right in the middle of the pits no pets involved. He is just a big cry baby. I'm not sure where he gets all his cheerleaders from but I heard a rumor he buys his friends.


Cito, Odie, and Marty is it.


Ill address your issues in order of hilarity.


Cito saying you don't pvp in uo is like saying you don't swim in diving. You have to its the nature of the beast. Now I have a screen of you dead in the duel pits. Were you taking a break from not pvping that day? I'm really confused. Oh wait your just a dumb liar. People ask me why I take and keep screenshots. Its bc this isn't my first rodeo and your not the first liar I ran into.


Odie you are a decent player. I have some respect for you. I don't know why you keep ganking me. It's a free world tho. Your pet game is not that good bro. I don't think you understand a few basic concepts. Its ok tho. Any time you wanna 1v1 field or pits I will pwn you into the ground.


Then Marty I don't know who you are and I don't care as you can see I have enough ass clown stalkers. I don't need more so just climb your ass back into whatever hole you came out of. K Thanks

You are wrong sir. I duel for fun,I dont do actual PvP. I have never called myself a Pvper. SO call me a liar all you want. I dont seek out PvP in any thing other than the occasional duel and then I only duel for fun. So continue with your pathertic attempts at insults. It just shows your true character.

please refer me to where i cried
also please stay on topic when a post is about taming.

Wait am I bad or do I gank you? The reason I fight you is because you are the leader of a rival guild. As for I dont understand concepts? You came to ME for advice on how do use/deal with pets. You exploited the bracelet of binding to tree me then dip out of a fight where you dropped 3 ww's on me and I was killing them/you. I am at a loss for why you talk so much crap, we both clearly want pvp. Why dont you be respectful, recruit and train a decent pvp guild and we can have good fights. I even tried being friendly with you when I first got back. What do you do? Talk crap in game, on the forum, and now im being told your crap talking me and the rest of us on facebook. Like really?

Wow you guys responded fast. Look man I don't want a bunch of drama. It was fun for a while but I'm board of it. I know its hard but you have to move on.

Just so we are clear.
Nothing is wrong with pets. Your all bad. The end.

And whats with this karma thing? how did this post give me -1 karma?

  Okay lets settle this.  Black sheep at 10 paces, everyone involved make a circle. Release your pets: GO!



   (eats popcorn)


  Thanks for the classic troll-all-night novella... it was a funny read.


   --Sturger--

   

just out of curiosity straight. do you know what a rule is
or is this your forum to decide the rules?

"Then Marty I don't know who you are and I don't care as you can see I have enough ass clown stalkers. I don't need more so just climb your ass back into whatever hole you came out of. K Thanks"
[/size][/color]
I really don't know how someone like you exists on a shard like Evo. Probably because people are too nice to really get you to leave. Glad you acknowledge that you are a miserable person though.

I've always liked the risk-reward system when it comes to PvP.  There shouldn't be risk free ways to fight someone.  So ideas that come to mind:

- make area peace potent in PvP against pets
- allow provo/discord a chance to unbound pets
- add ANTI-PET PVP traits to gear (you can create a whole mess of  PvP related abullies actually)
- allow dispell to unsummon pets and stable them in combat
- have pets take increased damage from other players.

I've always liked the risk-reward system when it comes to PvP.  There shouldn't be risk free ways to fight someone.  So ideas that come to mind:

- make area peace potent in PvP against pets
- allow provo/discord a chance to unbound pets
- add ANTI-PET PVP traits to gear (you can create a whole mess of  PvP related abullies actually)
- allow dispell to unsummon pets and stable them in combat
- have pets take increased damage from other players.

I'm not a very knowledgeable person when it comes to UO overall (the special gear, little tricks, quests, history, etc - I just haven't played that much of it in comparison to a lot of you), but I do agree that, especially on Evo, the risk of PvP is nil. The only time you might have ANY risk whatsoever is if your pet dies and gets kicked for it with penalties, but that is avoidable easily enough if you pay attention, and even in worst case scenario - it is fixable with ointments and pet repair system (yes - expensive and hard to do, maybe, but...).


If we want an exiting PvP on this server? Make it risky.. Make it dangerous. Worthewile, but dangerous. Make reds have chance to lose some of their insured/blessed items if they get smacked, or something along the lines. Make changes as above, especially I liked the option for pets to go bonkers, hehe. With whole bunch of such smaller changes - pvp can be more than a sparring, which it is right now, where people (if it is two pvpers meet in the field) testing each other's skill or pure gank/run away (if it is red catches blue in fel and decides to have fun). In either cases - there is no loss or gain whatsoever.

I really dont get into the PVP scene, but I do have a few things I think Id like to mention.

I've always liked the risk-reward system when it comes to PvP.  There shouldn't be risk free ways to fight someone.  So ideas that come to mind:


- make area peace potent in PvP against pets
- allow provo/discord a chance to unbound pets
- add ANTI-PET PVP traits to gear (you can create a whole mess of  PvP related abullies actually)
- allow dispell to unsummon pets and stable them in combat
- have pets take increased damage from other players.

I think Kane should just cycle through skills, make one OP every few weeks, then nerf it back down after buffing the next skill.

This would keep people on their toes.

Har har har har har.