Just came back to Evo this weekend. Had a blast hanging out with the BUDz, setting up a brand new Razor profile (that part was actually exrtremely tedious lol), kicking people asses, getting my ass kicked, doing a triple champ, and checking out all the new additions. Everyone has done a great job creating this community.

Just want to point one thing out that stuck out in my head and make a suggestion. I noticed ALOT more people have personal teleporters now. This is a great tool for trammel, however it should have no place in Felucca. It's like bringing a trammel safety blanket with you to Felucca. Doesnt make sense. I know this item is a permanent part of Evo and is not going anywhere, nor should it. But perhaps it should have the same rules as a runebook when in Felucca. I believe this would be beneficial to the PVP aspect of this shard.

Not trying to come back and flip the world upside down, but that just really stuck out in my head this weekend.

Have a happy new year and happy hunting.

I personally don't agree with that.  Part of the nice thing about paying 500 ED (not cheap) for the personal teleporter is the Felucca aspect.  Everyone you can mark a rune and just use a recall book.  If it were not allowed in the PVP lands, I would not have been interested in getting one.  Not that PVP'ers really bother me in the slightest, I die all time from Mobs, death by another to me in no different.  Many others purchase these items for the same reason.   

Agreed on both accounts.
The only problem that the Teleporter causes is: Allows people to avoid any player encounter in Felucca. - So practically making any player carrying one untouchable (from PvP) even when entering Fel.


This removes an element of player vs. player encounters from the game when a player acquires one of these teleporters. If used correctly (which has become very popular), a person can avoid all PKs in Fel at any given time - defeating a major element of PvP in Fel (Player vs. player encounters only exists in Felucca as it is, so it also removes Reds/PK'ing from the picture since they can be completely avoided.) Encountering PvPers (in Fel) is part of the game and adds to the excitement and nostalgia of UO when trying to escape OR trying to overpower the player in Felucca. With the personal Teleporter (as it currently exists), this excitement factor which only exists in Felucca is removed from UO Evolution.


Solution: If a Player attacks you, In Fel, then your personal teleporter has a 30 second cooldown before it can be used (This 30 seconds resetting upon taking harmful casts/attacks from another Player).
-People still have the option of using Recall, etc. (which is highly effective.)


They would still be just as Viable and just as desire-able, the only difference would mean they could not be "exploited" to avoid any danger from PvP in Fel.
Additionally this would bring back some 'end game' content through Fel player encounters.

 I believe this would be beneficial to the PVP aspect of this shard.
 

The only problem that the Teleporter causes is: Allows people to avoid any player encounter in Felucca. - So practically making any player carrying one untouchable (from PvP) even when entering Fel.

I think the basic idea of Escobar with the 30 sec timer could be changed to the timer being triggered when you cast anything harmful on a player, not when being attacked and therefore prevent escaping after actively engaging in a PVP-fight.

It used to function this way and I hope it hasn't changed. The "trick" people used to use to prevent others from fleeing PvP was to have a red, or someone who went grey, stealth next to the target and wait to be hit by an area spell. Any hit area or area spell effect would attack the red/grey player and flag the target for combat, preventing fleeing. The target needed to give the first blow to block their get-me-outta-here macro.

You re talking about pking, not PVP!PVP is when both players are content about fighting and then using a personal teleporter would be cowardish.

As this shard has bank access from every where (with crystal), insuring and blessing deeds, a pk wont get loot from smart players anyway, so the fun of pking people is just fighting people who dont fight back or who are ambushed and therefore fighting with a big disadvantage.

I think the basic idea of Escobar with the 30 sec timer could be changed to the timer being triggered when you cast anything harmful on a player, not when being attacked and therefore prevent escaping after actively engaging in a PVP-fight.

30 seconds in PVP is an extremely large amount of time.  People can be taken down an individual in that amount of time.  Again this is just one of the perks of having a personal teleporter.  If you really want to make it more of a challenge with PVP then start with putting caps on the amount of damage one does with low level spells.  Clothing bless deeds are next to impossible to get, and everyone knows how many you can burn through to get anything good.  Yet people run around with Eval Int of over 200 and do 50 hps of damage with a level 2 spell.  So new players coming into the game that want to get into PVP will have a great amount of disadvantage to those that were able to get the high level cloths to get their damage almost to that of a MOB.  Not saying that personal teleporters should be changed or not, just saying that is only the beginning of things that need to be addressed when talking about PVP. 
I also think that the amount of PVP on the shard is very very small, and to change something that so many enjoy to accommodate the small amount that do PVP is really unfair to everyone else. 
 

Leave my teleporter alone

Damn quote button isn't working for me

I also think that the amount of PVP on the shard is very very small

At the end of the day, if you tell johnny; the only one who wants to PvP, that he can PvP. The other 99 kids should have to deal with it, and be fair about it.

I also think that the amount of PVP on the shard is very very small, and to change something that so many enjoy to accommodate the small amount that do PVP is really unfair to everyone else.

Yet people run around with Eval Int of over 200 and do 50 hps of damage with a level 2 spell.

I never disagreed with what was mentioned above.  I was just pointing out that if you want to have PVP, then make it balanced.  This would not be an issue if clothing bless deeds where still available.  I have no idea if these will come back or not, and the one or two out of a treasure chest is not going to cut it unless you spend years doing it to get that set.  If not than the fact that someone has a HUGE advantage over someone just coming to the game, even after a month or two of playing, will never be able to compete against those that have this advantage.  So the new player has a personal teleporter, and the other has god like armor in comparison.  To me tic for tac.
To me UO stopped being a PVP game many years ago (have played it since the BETA days of 1996-1997).  The reason other expansions happened was to attract even more players that did not like the PVP part of the game, hence Trammel arrived.  Today there are so many games out on the market that deal with nothing but building up and taking on others in combat, that UO has become more of the crafter, PVM, and building those custom homes which is what attracts me to UO, which no other game can offer. 
Of course others will disagree with me, and I will disagree and agree with others.  It really depends upon what you like to do in the world of UO.  Regardless I will continue to play and have fun, and like always adjust to the ever evolving way of Ultima Online.   

  Note: I wrote a whole lot of words before I posted this simple post. Those paragraphs all amounted to this:


  PvP Exists In Game.

  Balance Is Hard To Come By In Any Form Of PvP

  Personal Teleportals Equal Balance.

  Personal Teleportals Equal PvP's Death.

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  Personal Teleportals should be disabled during combat, IMO. There are many ways to get away from PK's. Easy buttons often ruin the fun of the game.
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  In closing without risk, is there truly any reward?

Well said. Nicely Summed Up Sturger

If one really wants to balance PVP, then get rid of regent keys once you enter this land, as thief's have no way of stealing regents when they can come from a blessed or insured key.  Get rid of personal teleporters when you enter this land, get rid of bank bells when you enter this land, and restrict ALL skills to no more than 120.  There you have it.  Old school, traditional PVP.  But this will never happen, because others will argue that you are taking something away.  To bad, give and take, that's what I say. I'm all about basic PVP, but the way it is now, I don't consider it to be that way, so it does not interest me. With this way, you cant just teleport around, you cant just access your bank, you can beef yourself up to 200+ on a skill, and everyone has an even shot, it will be solely based on strategic skills, the way it use to be, true PVP.

a theif had a definate advantage in fel ruleset with the introduction of the loot bag and bag of holding    you steal the item and throw it in either one of thoes bags and its totally stolen  no way for a player that isnt part of the theives guild to get it back  i know this isnt part of pvp really just responding to the last post sorry if its off topic

You made a really good point.  I loved playing a thief PVP'er on OSI.  Trying to steal the regs from the mages and the Band-Aids from the fighters.  You would run over, do the snoop, target the item, then do a run buy and steal last target.  Of course, many many times, I would fail and go spat, but that was part of the challenge.  Oh the good ol days.  Or those huge epic battles between guilds with 20+ people fighting, healing, resing, etc.  =)

If one really wants to balance PVP, then get rid of regent keys once you enter this land, as thief's have no way of stealing regents when they can come from a blessed or insured key.  Get rid of personal teleporters when you enter this land, get rid of bank bells when you enter this land, and restrict ALL skills to no more than 120.  There you have it.  Old school, traditional PVP.  But this will never happen, because others will argue that you are taking something away.  To bad, give and take, that's what I say. I'm all about basic PVP, but the way it is now, I don't consider it to be that way, so it does not interest me. With this way, you cant just teleport around, you cant just access your bank, you can beef yourself up to 200+ on a skill, and everyone has an even shot, it will be solely based on strategic skills, the way it use to be, true PVP.

when i posted this lots of people were using it in Pvp. but honestly lately most players are choosing to fight honorably. thats all that really needed to happen.

old school pvp is a blast and very nostalgic. but its also from another era of UO than this server is based on. but i do highly recommend attending a "Hunger Game's" event. has that old school pvp feel and puts new players and vets on the same level.

I'll keep an eye out for the hunger games events, thank you Meta

Being that I am really a month of playtime old (Even though I've been around for a few months) getting geared enough to escape most PvP is relatively simple and I can hit hard enough to make some people at least pause before they wipe me out.

But! What is the actual risk of Fel?
You might get killed -- There are stronger mobs and anyone can attack you and as stated previously can one shot you. But really, what would you loose? What is the risk?
A few gold for your item insurance?
A little time?
Your temper?

The reward on the other hand is great -- Better drops, better mining and lumber... Basically better everything.
a 30 second timer is huge really, most PKs tend to happen within 5-10 seconds of the start of a fight during a jump. A geared and prepared PvPer versus another might take longer or even end in a stalemate. But I think there is all the security in the world of UOE at the moment.

PvP sets a natural course to resolve conflict over mob spawns.
How many times have you been in Tokuno farming belts and someone shows up at the last minute as your taking out Xun'Lao and taken the kill away from you and stolen the chance at a belt? -- What can you do at that point? Sick your pets on him? No were in Tukono. Attack him? No were in Tukono. Send him a PM and yell at him while stomping your feet? Basically. How many GM pages have resulted in the last couple months over he stole my candy? Its not like a Red or PKer are allowed to rez kill anyways. Zombies and Skellys don't drop the high end gear because its easy. The challenge and the fight is the draw to all MMOs not specifically to UO.

Very Good Points Sir!
+2

Being that I am really a month of playtime old (Even though I've been around for a few months) getting geared enough to escape most PvP is relatively simple and I can hit hard enough to make some people at least pause before they wipe me out.

But! What is the actual risk of Fel?
You might get killed -- There are stronger mobs and anyone can attack you and as stated previously can one shot you. But really, what would you loose? What is the risk?
A few gold for your item insurance?
A little time?
Your temper?

The reward on the other hand is great -- Better drops, better mining and lumber... Basically better everything.
a 30 second timer is huge really, most PKs tend to happen within 5-10 seconds of the start of a fight during a jump. A geared and prepared PvPer versus another might take longer or even end in a stalemate. But I think there is all the security in the world of UOE at the moment.

PvP sets a natural course to resolve conflict over mob spawns.
How many times have you been in Tokuno farming belts and someone shows up at the last minute as your taking out Xun'Lao and taken the kill away from you and stolen the chance at a belt? -- What can you do at that point? Sick your pets on him? No were in Tukono. Attack him? No were in Tukono. Send him a PM and yell at him while stomping your feet? Basically. How many GM pages have resulted in the last couple months over he stole my candy? Its not like a Red or PKer are allowed to rez kill anyways. Zombies and Skellys don't drop the high end gear because its easy. The challenge and the fight is the draw to all MMOs not specifically to UO.

How about creating an area in Felucca (an island perhaps) where the teleporter is disabled. Would be straight forward coding-wise, would be an alternative to Destard, and would remove the instant flee option for those who decide to go there. Change the notoriety setting to can be attacked for anyone in the region, which removes the possibility of murder counts, and now you've got a nice free-for-all area

Great Idea Minos.

On a side note in order for people to use this designated PvP area they will need some incentive.. There are countless ways to make PvP in this area desirable, here are a few suggestions.

1) Player vs Player Evolutions Coins (Or some form of currency, similar to silver, that has desirable rewards for players interested in PvP.) This PvP currency could only be acquired through PvP within this designated PvP area.

2) A revised or new PvP ranking system for this designated PvP area. This will provide a competitive incentive for PvP players to enter this PvP area. (Along with most things competitive in life, This could lead to "trash talking" and negative attitudes, but as long as the competition is handled maturely it would be no different than the current ranking system.)

I'm sure there are plenty of other great and creative ideas to provide an incentive to participate in PvP in this PvP area - feel free to comment and/or add additional ideas.

What's the incentive to PvP out in front of Destard? My experience was there wasn't any bonus for the group battles; it was purely for bragging rights and entertainment. Players showed up simply because something was going on... or hung out for the explicit purpose of drawing others there.

PvP coins would be exploited in the same fashion points can be with the current system. Occasionally, players farm themselves just for a position on the PvP board. Add in tangible rewards and you will have it become far more common. The answer would be to only give such a currency at a moderated tournament/event.

I do agree with your second point. A point board that only counts points for this designated location would be more meaningful than the current board. But you would still likely run into someone farming alts in this area. Though, this is not as big a deal when the reward is simply your reputation based on board ranking.

How about creating an area in Felucca (an island perhaps) where the teleporter is disabled. Would be straight forward coding-wise, would be an alternative to Destard, and would remove the instant flee option for those who decide to go there. Change the notoriety setting to can be attacked for anyone in the region, which removes the possibility of murder counts, and now you've got a nice free-for-all area

Why? Did you even read the thread? People who want to pvp using the teleporter to eascape are not the problem.

when i posted this lots of people were using it in Pvp. but honestly lately most players are choosing to fight honorably. thats all that really needed to happen.

Minos Said: "What's your point? The thread didn't exactly stay on topic... it was a related suggestion. Using the teleporter to flee both consensual and non-consensual PvP has been discussed for the nearly 2 years I've been on the shard. Being as there is cash and a lot of strong feelings involved, it's not going to change in any significant way."

We're on the same page Sturger. I'll be fine with being proven wrong and teleporters get changed significantly. That was simply my assessment after having watched this argument for a long time.

My bad then Minos. Hope the devs are reading this.

  Perhaps a view point from them would help.