Dexxer build:
max out stats
craft weapon
acquire level deeds
level weapon
buy 1h deed
stack parry
stack anatomy
stack magery so you can heal through spell spam
stack swords
READY TO FIGHT


all this gets you is a small chance to acutally connect a hit through their stacked parry and hope a spike shield doesnt pop off or your done. low DPS. casting is weak pretty much only useful for interupts.




mage build:
max out stats
stack eval
stack parry
stack magery
READY TO FIGHT
 
your spells always hit. never have to worry about them being reflected back. very high DPS. use a mage weapon for extra abilities and damage. spike shield OP






Solution for balance:
tone down spike shield
make bushido viable with 1h weps
reduce evasion cool down
make magic reflect spell actually reflect
cap dex back to 150. (bandages are op with 165 dex)

We are also discussing this on the update thread. You're correct on most points. Mages are OP not because of eval, its because of spike shield. It renders weapons useless. I'd like to see spike shield reflect 100% of damage instead of 300% and I'd like to see spike shield reflect one direct damage spell back on the caster. That would balance both sides.

My solution is quite simple and partialy on the way, add a new viable pvp class, archer, with what i believe is coming, dip tubs, make one or a special aug to interupt. So archer can pawn mages, mages will still be stronger then dexxers and dexxers will own archers. Just a thought i had.

Poison alone won't do it. I beat everyone I fight by nox locking them. Still doesn't stop them from casting. Keep in mind those arrows will be continuously spike shielded back at you as well.

Agreed on spike shield returning dam, so fix it to only return direct damage from a non ranged weapon, for the arrows well there are diff ones, poison, lightning, flaming and my fav; armor pierce. But my point was to have the ability to interupt spells using a bow.

Agreed. I would like to see spike shield modified to reflect damage from a close range source and have the ability to reflect one direct damage spell back on the caster. Either or whichever hits the spike shield first. I'd also say that I'd like to see a stamina poison for archers. It would make it an ultimate backup skill to close range fighters/pets and it wouldnt be overpowered considering dampen spirit.

So basicaly it all comes down to two things, op spike shield and we need more fighting class, by adding new ''builds'' it would give people options other then the two available. If you have enough classes, pvpers will have to choose more carefully how they gear and wont be all mighty anymore. Each class needs its achiles heel and right now thats not happening, and i wont even get the debate on speed third party tools offer like steam vs razors, thats another debate!

The Fix: First off lets just start with this. If you pvp congrats on posting if you don't just listen but leave your peanut gallery remarks out because no offense you have no idea what your talking about.
Now lets move along.
Everyone wants buffs this and that... << forget this.. theirs enough buffs in this game that your literally so overpowered you can kill a gm with ease.. don't believe me? Ask the gm's they have died before.
If you want to fix the issue with pvp lets start off with breaking up class types.
If you wanna play a pure mage then make it so that any player that has a weapon skill say swords , fending etc losses spell damage... if your a pure mage then u get higher spell damage cap say thirty five to forty five.
If you wanna play a dexer thats all good, give them higher cap in damage increase.. with of course tweaking spike shield timers and damage, but if they posses evaluation or spirit speak then have that damage increase go bye bye
If you wanna play a hybrid then you do not get any buffs and you play strict hybrid without the spell damage buff or the damage increase buff.
Balance is the key in fixing pvp on this server.. everyone is crying wolf with we need more buffs here and there if your gonna go with buffs you have to regulate and take some away in the right direction hence eval, spirit for dexers... weapon damage for mages etc..
This is not a hard fix and its actually the true balance of pvp. If you plan on doing anything other then this leave it alone.... 
If you believe that more is given to one certain type of build then all i can tell you is that you have no clue about pvping because as it is right now i can find a balance as a pure dexer, mage, hybrid, in healing issues... buffs issues.. etc.
Stop Just stop and fix it this way if not just leave it alone or end this convo.

Who the hell do you think you are, this is a forum and it is used to express your opinion and point of view, you are not all knowing buddy, and even if someone doesn't pvp it doesn't mean they dont know anything or dont have valid ideas, and dont forget that those who dont pvp are usualy the victims of pvpers since most of them wont kill each other so pvmers DO have a voice that need to be heard. Now if you ain't happy with that concept, you can always crawl back under the rock you came from!

You are the victim of pvp. I am the pvper making you a victim. I know what im talking about... you have no clue... thats who I am. Your opinion will only make the situation worse except for your spike shield claim. So please stay in trammie land. Leave fel to the big boys.
This type of post has no place on the forums, if you would like to suggest a change or defend your point of view, please do it without the negativity

Wow are you 12? You are still a troll and personaly you can say all you want, the fact is you are and will always be a nuissance to the shard. And i will still post and hope that everyone else does!

Thorgal you do not pvp. You dont understand nor comprehend the issues with this server in regards to pvp. You call me a nuissence yet I am the reason you have to try so hard to farm for items in fel and die losing more then you had when u came in. I am the reason the economy in evolution is balanced. I am the reason you play to acquire more items instead of saying hmm i got everything i need... im bored... time for me to move on to another game. I am the reason for your existence.
Please try and tone down the personal responses and keep on point with the actual discussion.  I really don't want to edit posts, so please try and respond respectfully

First let me say.. this is a discussion.  I do not care who has the "Good idea" because all I want is the "Good idea". 

I am already tooling with the idea of some kind of system that will alter the caps based on your "Class Style", Dante and I have been talking about a "Class Style" system for a few days now.  Like a few stated and in this thread as well there are enough buffs but this does not mean we don't need to add new items it just means that any item added needs to be put in with some thought and balanced vs what exists in game at this point.

For cool down times on some of the stated troublesome items I am looking at selecting multiple skills to create a delay, a high Skill A could reduce the cool down period while a high Skill B could increase the cool down.  When I say high skill, I am talking about exceeding 120's because when you start putting skill items on you are defining your build type.

I have also talked with quite a few people in TS about combat skill caps, so far the number being floated around and suggested has been 200-220.

First let me say.. this is a discussion.  I do not care who has the "Good idea" because all I want is the "Good idea". 

I am already tooling with the idea of some kind of system that will alter the caps based on your "Class Style", Dante and I have been talking about a "Class Style" system for a few days now.  Like a few stated and in this thread as well there are enough buffs but this does not mean we don't need to add new items it just means that any item added needs to be put in with some thought and balanced vs what exists in game at this point.

For cool down times on some of the stated troublesome items I am looking at selecting multiple skills to create a delay, a high Skill A could reduce the cool down period while a high Skill B could increase the cool down.  When I say high skill, I am talking about exceeding 120's because when you start putting skill items on you are defining your build type.

I have also talked with quite a few people in TS about combat skill caps, so far the number being floated around and suggested has been 200-220.

Thorgal you do not pvp. You dont understand nor comprehend the issues with this server in regards to pvp. You call me a nuissence yet I am the reason you have to try so hard to farm for items in fel and die losing more then you had when u came in. I am the reason the economy in evolution is balanced. I am the reason you play to acquire more items instead of saying hmm i got everything i need... im bored... time for me to move on to another game. I am the reason for your existence.

Lol. Palameta has got quite the ego. I do pvp so my comments aren't from a peanut gallery. Since the revert I have stepped away because I lost most my pvp gear and the important pieces were not replaced. And what I was able to acquire in the past month doesn't bring me to a viable pvp state against players that had their items returned in full. I have merely suggested a few points that have been in place in the past and worked. Plus added a couple extra ideas to think about. There is a gap between mages and dexters and it would be cool to see that gap become smaller. Sounds like Kane and Dante have some ideas of a new direction and I fully support that. That is what evolution is all about.

Quote From: Palameta

 First off lets just start with this. If you pvp congrats on posting if you don't just listen but leave your peanut gallery remarks out because no offense you have no idea what your talking about.

It is a great balancing idea to make specific bonuses that only apply to certain defined class styles, such as mage or dexxer. (Since this would move away from the current end-all be-all Hybrid for competitive PvP.)

When it comes to putting caps on skills, it would take away from what makes UOEvolution unique: The fact that it is a no-cap server for all skills. I know Kane and Minos have mentioned diminishing returns, and believe that would be the best route since the intensity of and formula for each skills diminishing returns can be altered and refined to a near perfect balance.


Examples of diminishing returns:


Example #1) Every two points past 120 would be 1% less effective. For example, the first two skill points above 120 (would be your 121st and 122nd skill points) would only provide 99% of the benefits that they normally would. This would eventually reach 0% so in order to prevent that, make 50% reduction the max that a player can receive. In other words, every point past 220 would be providing the same 50% reduction no matter how high past that the skill is stacked.
These are all arbitrary numbers that could/should be altered for greater or lesser diminishing intensity.


Example #2) Blocking the diminishing returns. Every point between 120 and 150 would provide 100% effectiveness from the bonuses that chosen skill provides. Every point between 150 and 200 would provide a diminished 80% effectiveness from the skill point bonuses. 200 to 250 would result in a 60%, and so on and so forth.
These values could also be manipulated depending on the goal.


Each skill could have a different formula and intensity to create a more specific balance.

  I'm probably late to the tables, but I'll throw in my two cents.

  I humbly believe that taking away the Spiked shield socket ability, altogether, is the right plan here.

  It seems to be OP no matter what you do. At present it caters to a class whom is not under its negatives. Spell damage does not proc the so called 300% damage, like a melee/ranged strike would.

   Having the ability to have all possible skills maxed out is awesome, but there needs to be certain roads traveled when deciding on things that concern both PvM and PvP. Spiked shield probably helps tremendously against 1 shot kill MoB's. But do we really want that on our PvP Field?

   No. Because no one thing should decide any type of RPG combat; rather it should be veteran skill, a little bit of luck, and counter counter thrust.


   --Sturger--


P.S. if you're going to flame my post, please explain what you think is wrong; all the rest I simply ignore. Thanks.

No flaming necessary. You are on the right path. I'd make it damage stamina instead of life. Make it do 50% stamina damage or any of the other comments I made about it across the forum. No matter what you do to it almost anything is better than leaving it alone.

  I based most of what I posted on what I read from you Spainkevin, Meta, Minos and Pumpkin.

 If the plan is  to change how it works spike shield should at best:

  Have a chance to dismount someone...

  Cause a random bleeding effect to an opponents mana, life, or stamina... with X duration...

  ...or add a bonus to a players "reflect damage" pool; which should first be hard capped at 55-75% reflection chances.

 

 

A bleeding effect sounds kind of cool. I would like to see that. It would enable players use of the spike shield tactically instead of just making sure it stays active for bonus damage. Dismount sounds like a bit of a stretch. Typically you need to be on foot already to dismount someone unless you use a cyclone, which also should be addressed. Why do cyclones even dismount people here? Thats always been a mystery to me. I also like the random effect, or you could make several different versions of spike shield that have different effects. I am 100% behind that bleed tactic though.

+1 all around 

Lets put all the cards on the table. Mages Dexers hybrids... take your pick this is the type of format and type of gamestyle you want to fix/ convert to in order to have a pvp balance in this server... Why you may ask??? because it works. With the items that currently flow in the server.. it balances itself out.. Giving that extra umf help to your selected class. Second.... Spike shield, para fear, triple slash, uo evolution pets, over capping, etc.. should be fixed/ changed in order to make the balance above work. What was said was said because no one even the top players of pvp keep their mouths shut with fear of repercussion from gm's and the community since its truly a very blue world in uo evolution. Ego can jump off a cliff.. i dont have it, i die like you.. but some  things you guys say blow my mind.. because your sooo wrong.. always quick to point fingers and say things are broken when in reality you just dont understand how things work. <<<< YOU DONT if you did u would know why certain things work the way they work. The GM's of this server from my understanding have ZERO pvp knowledge... and who do they go to for help?? The people that don't pvp.. im not bashing you.. u just dont pvp... and if u do.. u do it poorly because... i dont need to prove it. Just go look at your scores and ask around about who the top pvpers are.. Those on the first page that have current kills... not kills>>> in the past should be asked what they think should be done or fixed. Not those who don't even pvp... seriously i cannot comprehend why most individuals are against this? Those top players are seriously wanting to help ... not distort pvp more than it is. It is a open discussion but i see some posts that people claim OMG I TOOK 90 DAMAGE FROM A FLAME STRIKE.. << go look at the situation and put it all on paper then wonder why.. but u wont understand nor get it cuz you do not pvp. Like i said this is not a bashing post. Its a wake up call... go ask the people currently pvping gm's do yourself the favor so you get the right answers..... u dont go to a florist to recieve medical advice do you?? no you go to a doctor..

very nice ideas by all! 


I see some problems though arising from the whole forcing the hand of making a dexer a dexer or mage a mage based on using things like "if eval > 150, then sdi % is capped at x, else sdi cap is y"  or "if wep skill >200 and eval < 200 then hci cap is z."  Though in principal these ideas are fantastic, it would be very difficult to "tune."



]My suggestions would be as follows: 


cap spiked shield to 100% damage reflect



EITHER (not both) make paralyzing fear 2 second duration OR make it so you cannot para the same target within 10 seconds (similar to how para blow works when you get the response 'your target resists paralysis').

With all that being said these are the MAJOR  changes that would be easy to implement:

"PURE MAGE"   equiping no shield and no weapon (spell book doesn't count) the player gets 4/6 capped casting.  They have very little defense but are monsters with damage output and healing throughput.  Their problem is they will nearly always get hit since they have 0 parry, rely on 120ish "wep" (wrestling) skill, and very low HCI/DCI because of their shield loss.   

"PARRY MAGE":  equiping a shield and no weapon (spell book doesn't count) the player gets 3/6 capped casting.  They have good defensive skills by being able to use spike shield and reflect, however for damage and healing output they would be less than the PURE MAGE because of the casting speed cap. 

"BUSHIDO MAGE/DEXER"  equiping no shield and a weapon (one handed or two handed) the player gets 3/6 capped casting.  These are similar to parry mages in their casting cap but they cannot use spike shield for defense BUT they still can parry because of bushido and also they can EVADE spells.  They lose a lot of hci/dci from losing their shield.  They can rely on spell casting though not as good as PURE MAGE but they can defend against them better than PARRY MAGE because of their evasion from bushido.  They have VERY strong offense with their weapon, their ability to avoid incoming damage for 6 seconds every 14 seconds, and they can use parafear/trip strike.

"PARRY DEXER" equiping a shield and a wep the player the player gets 2/6 casting.  These dexers are powerful in that they have good defense vs other dexers or bushi dexers because they can parry hits, use spiked shield and also can parafear/trip strike.  Though they cannot evade they still have 2/6 casting which is adequate enough to min heal spam.  VS a PURE MAGE they would be very strong meanwhile being able to parry incomming attacks from players with weps and reflect damage back. 

ALL of these "templates" are interchangeable even ON THE FIELD!  That would make for exciting fights I think trying to counter the player(s) you're fighting by changing your template strat, and having them counter-adjust. 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
PURE MAGE: very high damage and GOOD vs parry mages since they have faster casting and parry mages cannot evade.  They will be OK vs parry dexer because their fast casting will sustain their damage but they will fizzle a lot from getting hit all the time.  They would be OK vs bushi mage/dexer because their damage will be evaded and they will get hit a lot from weps fizzling them.

PARRY MAGE: very good damage because of the casting speed and good defense from being able to reflect weapon damage, though not as good at damage as pure mage and not as good at defending against mages because no evasion.  They would be OK vs bushi mage/dexer and GOOD vs parry dexer and BAD vs pure mages.  Half offense, half defense. a strong choice in that in can counter bushi mage/dexer and parry dexer with their shield and ability to reflect, however they are limited to not being able to use parafear/trip strike weps to help sustain their offensive abilities.

BUSHI MAGE/DEXER :also good damage because of casting speed supplemented by ability to parafear/trip strike with weapon.  Their defense wouldn't be as good as a parry mage since it cannot reflect damage BUT they can evade incomming damage from parry mage caster, other bushi mage/dexers, and pure mages.  Would be GOOD vs pure mages, OK against parry mages and OK vs parry dexers.

PARRY DEXER: good damage control with ability to parafear/trip strike with weps and reflect back damage of enemies with weps.  They will be GOOD vs pure mage since they can hit them all the time with their wep and fizzle them, they will be OK vs bushi mage/dexer since they can use parafear/trip strike and also reflect the incoming wep damage.  They will be OK vs parry mage.

I think this idea might be kinda cool since players can "change" their template ON THE FIELD based on the player(s) they are fighting to get a better counter-comp going.  Likewise the other players will have to readjust and adapt to a player that recently popped off a shield but is using a wep now to evade the damage.  Could be for fun on-the-spot swaps of templates.  The only difficult "swap" would be the bushido part but then again maybe we will all be allowed to use soul stones.


All of these are just theories and taking into account players with (near) maxed stats and skills and good weps/augments/skill clothing.  All of these seem viable and each seem to have good CORE strengths and weaknesses.  The two "extremes" seem to counter each other naturally: 4/6 mage casting that will be hit all day with wep vs 2/6 dexer but still can die easily if caught off guard.  The "middle" templates are interesting because they have high sustained mage casting damage with 3/6 casting but both have unique defense/offense abilities.  One uses a shield for max hci/dci and reflecting damage while the other lacks hci/dci but can parafear and evade spells. 

FOR INSTANCE:  before the huge server revert, Cal-El and I would mess around and he could kill me in mere seconds if i played with no shield on if I made a mistake, but WITH a shield it was much easier to survive.  Image the possibilities of players trying to counter their enemy's template then only to find their enemy switched their template to counter theirs!  the HUGE DOWN SIDE would be too much item-swapping every time a player ran off screen to equip/unequip something new.  That would be very tedious but I think the upsides are higher than the downsides.


If those cast times are too extreme maybe it could be 3/6 (casting time of most damage spells before revert), 2/6 (current casting time) and 1/6.  Heck, you maybe wouldn't even need that 4th "class" to have 1/6 casting so long as the defenseless pure mage has huge damage output to make up for the 0 defensive qualities.

Thoughts?

Sorry if it's tough to read, I usually think my posts out before hand, I just put fingers to keyboard and let it flow without much though for editing.  If there is interest in this i could maybe one day do some of the math on damage-per-second of the cast times with the spells vs dps of weps, vs the ability to "avoid damage" (evasion 6 sec duration every 14 sec) or (parry/reflecting damage) etc!!

stacking skill is op.
spike shield is op.
Special abilitys like PArafear is OP



there is no dex vs mage here. theres only mages and the best stacked one wins.


please keep in mind this is my opinion based off what iv seen so far and what Iv experienced in my many years of pvp on uo





in my opinion stick to pve in this shard until a few more upgrades come our way but as of right now pvp is a joke

On a no skill cap shard, with tons of items that increase skills, how do you propose addressing the issues you've outlined?

As you are new here DainPK, how is the following quote a reasonable assessment?

stacking skill is op. "said by DainPK"

As you are new here DainPK, how is the following quote a reasonable assessment?

Quote

stacking skill is op. "said by DainPK"

  I merely ask this, in light of your potential inability to achieve the high skill stacking that others have done. PvP is different on just about any shard you play on, so please keep that in mind. Some of the best PvP'ers, here on this shard, have been stacking skill for 2 to 3 years now. The way you are used to PvPing might not work here, which means adaptation is required.

  Obviously I could be wrong with my assumptions. You could have stacked skill just like the rest, only to find it not working out in your favor. Keep at it though, and keep the posts coming, too. The more we talk about stuff, the more the Staff listens and changes/fixs what needs it.

  --Sturger--

 DainPK the forums are about opinions; so I am not here to bash anyone about what they think.

 My opinion is different from yours of course, and I was only trying to enlighten you as to why.

 The fact that you believe your wallet will pay for items to improve your PvP here is misguided. Perhaps you will have to PvE 16 hours a day to do so, but there are plenty of players who farm gold and buy ED's without paying any real money.

  Even with limitations: 720 skill point totals, skills capped at 120 max, or items that can not be socketed; PvP comes down to the same two things...  personal skill and luck.

  Knowing that the bar has been raised, figuring out how to adapt to the small and large changes, and spending time on the battle field winning and losing a few is the only way to survive, PvP, on EVO.  With time we find experience, through that experience we grasp new wisdom, and all that wisdom grants us is understanding of time.

  And, because you told me yours I'll tell you mine. I've played UO since it went public in  1997. PvP was different way back then, as well.  NO TRAMMEL. {hides} E-bolts and halbreds; with Mages wearing plate. 

 Have a good day, and well met.


   --Sturger--

DainPK the forums are about opinions; so I am not here to bash anyone about what they think.

 My opinion is different from yours of course, and I was only trying to enlighten you as to why.

 The fact that you believe your wallet will pay for items to improve your PvP here is misguided. Perhaps you will have to PvE 16 hours a day to do so, but there are plenty of players who farm gold and buy ED's without paying any real money.

  Even with limitations: 720 skill point totals, skills capped at 120 max, or items that can not be socketed; PvP comes down to the same two things...  personal skill and luck.

  Knowing that the bar has been raised, figuring out how to adapt to the small and large changes, and spending time on the battle field winning and losing a few is the only way to survive, PvP, on EVO.  With time we find experience, through that experience we grasp new wisdom, and all that wisdom grants us is understanding of time.

  And, because you told me yours I'll tell you mine. I've played UO since it went public in  1997. PvP was different way back then, as well.  NO TRAMMEL. {hides} E-bolts and halbreds; with Mages wearing plate. 

 Have a good day, and well met.


   --Sturger--

  *nods* 

Okay lol this convo is getting interesting....
Being a long term UO player and PVPing since 1998 on this wonderful game of Ultima Online.
I have played many different servers.
First 2 free servers I ever got seriously into pvp was Crows Kingdom and UO Hybird.

Crows Kingdom was a lot like UO Evolution.
It had all the same stuff like for example:

Custom Crafting system
You could also Craft your own Jewelery (Earrings, Rings, Braclets, Necklaces). ( these are not the ML crafted items).
Earrings dropped like rings or braclets do.( you weren't set to only wearing a small selection of earrings.)
Custom duel system
Token system
NPC Ran auction system to sell Items amoung the players!
PVP Ranking board - You actually were able to purchase PVP items for your PVP points
PVM ranking board - You were able to purchase PVM gear for PVM points
Also had the same concept of trading Powerscrolls for others
You could turn in any Artifact for Artifact points which then if you obtained a certain amount you could purchase other Artifacts.
Casting cap was 4/6
You could actually define your role as a dexxer, mage or hybird. a single Stats could be raised to a maximum of 300 but you only had a stat cap of 400.
Reds could roam in Ilshenar and Malas but could not kill other players it was set so we couldnt.
there were increased drop rates in Felucca, Lower Drop rates in Trammel.
The crafting system when you crafted a piece of Gear with Bloodstone ( Evo's Platinum) It would be on par or even better then the artifacts sometimes. (I my self would use 2 pieces of crafted gear instead of full artifact stacking because the attributes were amazing.)
You could not raise your skills over the caps of 120. This defined it and we all killed each other just fine.
We had people with like 400 HP or 300 dex or 300+ str and more but they still died.

Everyone dies every one rezed and everyone had fun.

Everyone in GODs has been a long term PVPER.
Not only that but many of us in GODs have been PVPing with each other for a few Years.
We also have a vast knowledge of how to use and script Razor/UOSteam.
I myself learn new stuff daily when messing with it.
I know myself I have honestly fell off, I am not into it and as serious as I used to be. I at one point was on top of the board on Crows and honestly I content and happy and it that was enough for me.

Saying We need to do this and do that Honestly if skills were just Capped so you cant raise them past 120 it would balance the pvp out.

You defined your character by Your play style.

Dexxers were good there
Mages were good there
Hybirds were good there

It didnt matter any play style as long as you knew what you were doing you could kill someone.

I mean the other Day I tried taking on someone and I couldnt because I would get blown up faster and was getting parafeared which honestly just says run get out of there lol.

the next day Kefka and I took out  2 people at a champ spawn and we got called exploiters. When you have 2 people focus firing you your going to die. unless your able to out heal the damage.

Im just sick and tired of hearing people call us exploiters when the items and spells used are put in the game the way they are. We are not using bugs we are just using the abilities and attributes that were put into the server.

I am not the best I just do what I got to do to survive!
Its called Teamwork.

There we go exploiting teamwork again... *sighs* lol.

Nice post Danny. I think the biggest issue with pvp though is that, and I honestly mean no harm in saying this, this is not a pvp server. There are maybe 10 people, max, with the pvp mindset. Most people dislike the pvp aspect of the game, and it shows. They openly admit to it, so its not like this is a big revelation or anything. I guess all of us should work a little harder to keep that in mind.

I guess my point is this. Regardless of what changes in pvp, we will continuously have an animosity that shows in everything from play style to hunting locations. It's just a different type of mindset here than what most of us who pvp are accustomed too. I don't consider that a bad thing, but it's worth keeping in mind. Any changes made to pvp will only affect a fraction of the Evo population. Just my current thoughts.

@spainkevin79, amazing post. Short and summed up my opinion and probably many others on "PVP" here.

While PVP is allowed here, this is not at its core a PVP server. There are plenty of PVP centric shards out there, with rewards for PVP, catering to those that truly want to PVP. I would like to think that the great staffing, and PVM content is why some of the PVPrs actually stay here and do not go to a PVP centric shard!

You mentioned mindset, here is mine from a non PVPr for you since you do like PVP.

I have done the PVP thing in the past, and in other games. Was a blast. I am just over it now. When i first started the shard and saw Samurai Katana's, and the silly augments, and stacked 250+parry etc. I knew I was not interested in even dabbling in PVP here.  I am in the 40+ crowd (yes, its an old game). When I am done working, mowing the grass, whatever, I want to log in. do what I want to do, afk when i want to afk , hunt where i want to hunt.

I dont care about the PVP aspect. If you kill me, sure I might be annoyed for a few minutes because you cost me time. But than I dont care. I dont care about your rank/score. I dont care about your skill.  I simply just do not care one way or another. If they completely removed PVP, It would not bother me a bit.

Now, dont take this lack of caring as animosity. The MAJORITY of Pk's are actually pretty decent people and nice to chat with.  In fact i have played many shards, and this shard has the most mature pvp crowd(albeit small) I have seen.

This obviously is not the mindset of everyone who does not partake in PVP. There are probably quite a few who are of the same though. I hope, or im just crazy